Teac Floppy as RX33

[Bill Gunshannon]

Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.

bill

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.
bill

I not have jumper infor but the FD55GFR *IS* the RX33. Or more
clearly put all my RX33s are FD55GFRs though of the three I have
none have the same board. Must be a subrev variation that was
allowed for in the purchase spec.

Allison

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.
bill

I not have jumper infor but the FD55GFR *IS* the RX33. Or more
clearly put all my RX33s are FD55GFRs though of the three I have
none have the same board. Must be a subrev variation that was
allowed for in the purchase spec.

Everything I have seen lists the RX33 as a Teac FD55G. Whatever the
additions are to make it a GFR seem to cause problems. Like there
are jumpers that need to be set that I don't even have on mine. I
have at least a half-dozen, maybe more and all of them have the same
logic board. Guess I'll just keep trying to come up with a set of
jumpers that works.

bill

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

(snip)

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Everything I have seen lists the RX33 as a Teac FD55G. Whatever the
additions are to make it a GFR seem to cause problems. Like there
are jumpers that need to be set that I don't even have on mine. I
have at least a half-dozen, maybe more and all of them have the same
logic board. Guess I'll just keep trying to come up with a set of
jumpers that works.

The FD55F is an 80 track DSDD 300RPM drive, that is, 720K.
The FD55G is an 80 track HD 360RPM drive, with electrical
characteristics similar to an 8 inch drive.

The FD55FGR (the R might be color) can do either, depending
in the signal on pin 2. I believe it is ground for G and high
(floating) for F, but it might be the other way.
This is used by PC/AT type controllers to write DS/DD disks.

The pin is labeled reduce write current, but it is not related to
the similar function on 8 inch drives.

-- glen

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:42:28 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
(snip)

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Everything I have seen lists the RX33 as a Teac FD55G. Whatever the
additions are to make it a GFR seem to cause problems. Like there
are jumpers that need to be set that I don't even have on mine. I
have at least a half-dozen, maybe more and all of them have the same
logic board. Guess I'll just keep trying to come up with a set of
jumpers that works.

The FD55F is an 80 track DSDD 300RPM drive, that is, 720K.
The FD55G is an 80 track HD 360RPM drive, with electrical
characteristics similar to an 8 inch drive.

Wrong! The 55G is a dual speed, twosided, 80track 96 tpi drive.

As to being "electrical characteristics similar to an 8 inch drive"
all floppies in some abstract sense are. Starting with the 50 pin
connector and different signals. The 8' drives vary considerably
from the early SA800 to the late CDC and NEC drives.

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The FD55FGR (the R might be color) can do either, depending
in the signal on pin 2. I believe it is ground for G and high
(floating) for F, but it might be the other way.
This is used by PC/AT type controllers to write DS/DD disks.

The last two (FR) letter reference options like color, door lock on
select, color of the drive selected led (there may be more).

The signals on pin 2 are jumper select option. They can be,
HS only, LS only, or Pin 2 selects.

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The pin is labeled reduce write current, but it is not related to
the similar function on 8 inch drives.

In the 8" (IF the drive uses it) Write current select is applied when
writing to track greater than 43 (of 77) for compensation of bit
crowding on inner tracks.

In the 55GFR the write current is used with normal or high corecivity
media. depending on FDC used it may be jumper coupled to pin 2
or operated as a seperate signal.

FD55Gfr when operated as 300rpm (LS) and LWC(low write current)
used with normal corecivity (brown) media is functionally
compatable/interchangable with FD55F (720k). With
HS or LS and high write current it is the 1.2MB mode.

RX50 is two heads one spindle and on a per head basis is the same
as a FD55E (96tpi, 80tr, 1 sided, 300rpm, normal media, 400k
unformmated).

Getting the jumpers right depends on having a RQDX3 with late rev
firmware or the best you can hope for is a single sided RX50
replacement (FD55E functionality). All RQDX worked with RX50,
and only late firmware RQDX3 knew about RX33.


Allison

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:42:28 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt

(snip)

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The FD55F is an 80 track DSDD 300RPM drive, that is, 720K.
The FD55G is an 80 track HD 360RPM drive, with electrical
characteristics similar to an 8 inch drive.

Wrong! The 55G is a dual speed, twosided, 80track 96 tpi drive.

Some years ago, before the IBM PC/AT came out, I bought a TEAC FD55F
drive. The data sheet included a description for the FD55G, with no
indication of dual speed, and no indication of any other letters
being added. The FD55F is a 96TPI (80 track/side) 300RPM drive.
(I had it running an a TRS80/Color computer after rewriting the
OS/9 device driver for dual side 80 track drives.)

My first IBM compatible PC is (I still have it) an AT clone, which
came with a TEAC FD55GFR. I don't believe I ever saw an FD55G that
was not a GFR, but I believe that is what the data sheet described.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
As to being "electrical characteristics similar to an 8 inch drive"
all floppies in some abstract sense are. Starting with the 50 pin
connector and different signals. The 8' drives vary considerably
from the early SA800 to the late CDC and NEC drives.

Many years after the above I had an LSI-11 which I wired up a cable
between the 50 pin connector and a 34 pin FD55GFR. I then tried to
format a disk, which worked fine until track 43. Realizing what
the problem was, I then modified the cable to, I believe, ground pin 2.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The FD55FGR (the R might be color) can do either, depending
in the signal on pin 2. I believe it is ground for G and high
(floating) for F, but it might be the other way.
This is used by PC/AT type controllers to write DS/DD disks.

The last two (FR) letter reference options like color, door lock on
select, color of the drive selected led (there may be more).

The FD55F drives have a head load solenoid, a common feature of 8 inch
drives, but rare in 5.25 inch drives. 8 inch drives tend to keep the
motor on all the time (originally a 120VAC motor), and use a solenoid to
keep the head away from the disk when not reading. Head load should be
faster than starting the motor.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
The signals on pin 2 are jumper select option. They can be,
HS only, LS only, or Pin 2 selects.

And possibly different for ones produced at different times.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The pin is labeled reduce write current, but it is not related to
the similar function on 8 inch drives.

In the 8" (IF the drive uses it) Write current select is applied when
writing to track greater than 43 (of 77) for compensation of bit
crowding on inner tracks.

Yes, see above.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
In the 55GFR the write current is used with normal or high corecivity
media. depending on FDC used it may be jumper coupled to pin 2
or operated as a seperate signal.
FD55Gfr when operated as 300rpm (LS) and LWC(low write current)
used with normal corecivity (brown) media is functionally
compatable/interchangable with FD55F (720k). With
HS or LS and high write current it is the 1.2MB mode.

Except that it runs at 360RPM so the data rate must be 300kb/s,
instead of the 250kb/s for the FD55F and 500kb/s for 8 inch
and HD 5.25 drives.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
RX50 is two heads one spindle and on a per head basis is the same
as a FD55E (96tpi, 80tr, 1 sided, 300rpm, normal media, 400k
unformmated).
Getting the jumpers right depends on having a RQDX3 with late rev
firmware or the best you can hope for is a single sided RX50
replacement (FD55E functionality). All RQDX worked with RX50,
and only late firmware RQDX3 knew about RX33.

-- glen

[Roger Ivie]

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
FD55Gfr when operated as 300rpm (LS) and LWC(low write current)
used with normal corecivity (brown) media is functionally
compatable/interchangable with FD55F (720k). With
HS or LS and high write current it is the 1.2MB mode.

Except that it runs at 360RPM so the data rate must be 300kb/s,
instead of the 250kb/s for the FD55F and 500kb/s for 8 inch
and HD 5.25 drives.

Not quite certain what you're trying to say here.

The FD55G changes speed, and is normally used by DEC at 300RPM with
DD media and 360RPM with HD media. This puts the data rate at 250Kb/s
for DD media and 500Kb/s for HD media.

The drives normally used in a PC/AT do not change speed; they ALWAYS
operate at 360RPM. A PC/AT therefore must use 300Kb/s for DD media and
500Kb/s for HD media. The PC/AT disk controller must therefore support
250Kb/s (DD media in 360K drive), 300Kb/s (DD media in the 1.2MB
drive), and 500Kb/s (HD media in the 1.2MB drive). By changing drive
speed, the DEC disk controller only needs to support the standard data
rates of 250Kb/s and 500Kb/s.

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

Post by Roger Ivie

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
FD55Gfr when operated as 300rpm (LS) and LWC(low write current)
used with normal corecivity (brown) media is functionally
compatable/interchangable with FD55F (720k). With
HS or LS and high write current it is the 1.2MB mode.

Except that it runs at 360RPM so the data rate must be 300kb/s,
instead of the 250kb/s for the FD55F and 500kb/s for 8 inch
and HD 5.25 drives.

Not quite certain what you're trying to say here.
The FD55G changes speed, and is normally used by DEC at 300RPM with
DD media and 360RPM with HD media. This puts the data rate at 250Kb/s
for DD media and 500Kb/s for HD media.
The drives normally used in a PC/AT do not change speed; they ALWAYS
operate at 360RPM. A PC/AT therefore must use 300Kb/s for DD media and
500Kb/s for HD media. The PC/AT disk controller must therefore support
250Kb/s (DD media in 360K drive), 300Kb/s (DD media in the 1.2MB
drive), and 500Kb/s (HD media in the 1.2MB drive). By changing drive
speed, the DEC disk controller only needs to support the standard data
rates of 250Kb/s and 500Kb/s.

I have an older PC FDC card that runs the FD55GFR at LS and uses a
300kb2 data rate for 1.2mb. There were others that did that.

DEC saved a crystal and some logic by not chaging data rates to
a non binary 300kbs rates from the usual (125/250/500).

Allison


Allison

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Allison-***@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote:

http://www.teac.com/DSPD/support/floppy_drives/floppy_drives.htm#fd55gfr_id_your_drive.htm

seems to be all TEAC wants to say about 5.25in drives.

There is no mention of the 55A, 55B, 55E, or 55F.

-- glen

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:15:39 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
http://www.teac.com/DSPD/support/floppy_drives/floppy_drives.htm#fd55gfr_id_your_drive.htm
seems to be all TEAC wants to say about 5.25in drives.
There is no mention of the 55A, 55B, 55E, or 55F.
-- glen

Which is why I metioned THEREF.

I have samples of all FFD55s A through G and a bunch of others non
Teac. I don't "collect" them but over time I've accumulated systems
and spares and some types turn up more often or or are suitable as
replacements across a wide varieity of systems. For example I have
a bunch of toshiba 48 and 96 TPI half height drives as spares
because they are shorter ad fit in some systems like the NS* that is
depth limited. So the dide effect of it all is i need basic
setup/jumper data for them.

Allison

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:53:14 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:42:28 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt

(snip)

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The FD55F is an 80 track DSDD 300RPM drive, that is, 720K.
The FD55G is an 80 track HD 360RPM drive, with electrical
characteristics similar to an 8 inch drive.

Wrong! The 55G is a dual speed, twosided, 80track 96 tpi drive.

Some years ago, before the IBM PC/AT came out, I bought a TEAC FD55F
drive. The data sheet included a description for the FD55G, with no
indication of dual speed, and no indication of any other letters
being added. The FD55F is a 96TPI (80 track/side) 300RPM drive.
(I had it running an a TRS80/Color computer after rewriting the
OS/9 device driver for dual side 80 track drives.)

The G series are all dual speed.

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
My first IBM compatible PC is (I still have it) an AT clone, which
came with a TEAC FD55GFR. I don't believe I ever saw an FD55G that
was not a GFR, but I believe that is what the data sheet described.

G is the series and GFR is a specific submodel.

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
As to being "electrical characteristics similar to an 8 inch drive"
all floppies in some abstract sense are. Starting with the 50 pin
connector and different signals. The 8' drives vary considerably
from the early SA800 to the late CDC and NEC drives.

Many years after the above I had an LSI-11 which I wired up a cable
between the 50 pin connector and a 34 pin FD55GFR. I then tried to
format a disk, which worked fine until track 43. Realizing what
the problem was, I then modified the cable to, I believe, ground pin 2.

Must have been using a Non DEC controller.

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The FD55FGR (the R might be color) can do either, depending
in the signal on pin 2. I believe it is ground for G and high
(floating) for F, but it might be the other way.
This is used by PC/AT type controllers to write DS/DD disks.

The last two (FR) letter reference options like color, door lock on
select, color of the drive selected led (there may be more).

The FD55F drives have a head load solenoid, a common feature of 8 inch
drives, but rare in 5.25 inch drives. 8 inch drives tend to keep the
motor on all the time (originally a 120VAC motor), and use a solenoid to
keep the head away from the disk when not reading. Head load should be
faster than starting the motor.

Not all F series have the head load. I have three Visual 1050s that
have 55Fs in them and none have head load.

All of the 8" I've used have head load, a few ran DC motors.
Head load is faster than starting the motor, but motor life can be a
good reason for stopping it.

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
The signals on pin 2 are jumper select option. They can be,
HS only, LS only, or Pin 2 selects.

And possibly different for ones produced at different times.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
The pin is labeled reduce write current, but it is not related to
the similar function on 8 inch drives.

In the 8" (IF the drive uses it) Write current select is applied when
writing to track greater than 43 (of 77) for compensation of bit
crowding on inner tracks.

Yes, see above.

Reason for the comment on TG43 is some of the later 8" drives didn't
use it as the did it internally.

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
In the 55GFR the write current is used with normal or high corecivity
media. depending on FDC used it may be jumper coupled to pin 2
or operated as a seperate signal.
FD55Gfr when operated as 300rpm (LS) and LWC(low write current)
used with normal corecivity (brown) media is functionally
compatable/interchangable with FD55F (720k). With
HS or LS and high write current it is the 1.2MB mode.

Except that it runs at 360RPM so the data rate must be 300kb/s,
instead of the 250kb/s for the FD55F and 500kb/s for 8 inch
and HD 5.25 drives.

The 55G series can do 1.2mb by running low rpm or high
and using data rate for the speed (either 500kb or 300 controller
dependent).

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
RX50 is two heads one spindle and on a per head basis is the same
as a FD55E (96tpi, 80tr, 1 sided, 300rpm, normal media, 400k
unformmated).
Getting the jumpers right depends on having a RQDX3 with late rev
firmware or the best you can hope for is a single sided RX50
replacement (FD55E functionality). All RQDX worked with RX50,
and only late firmware RQDX3 knew about RX33.

Been there done it using:

RX50, FD55E, FD55GFR and a few other non teac drives that match those
two Teacs but only with my RQDX3. All of my RQDX2s only work with
RX50 or F55Es (or 55GFR jumpers for LS and LW and formatted single
sided.) I have multiple Qbus 11s.


Allison

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.
bill

I not have jumper infor but the FD55GFR *IS* the RX33. Or more
clearly put all my RX33s are FD55GFRs though of the three I have
none have the same board. Must be a subrev variation that was
allowed for in the purchase spec.

Everything I have seen lists the RX33 as a Teac FD55G. Whatever the
additions are to make it a GFR seem to cause problems. Like there
are jumpers that need to be set that I don't even have on mine. I
have at least a half-dozen, maybe more and all of them have the same
logic board. Guess I'll just keep trying to come up with a set of
jumpers that works.
bill

All of my RX33s came from inside DEC while I worked there. All are
FD55GFR-xxx.

The correct jumpers allow for Side select, Speed, unitselect is 1
(using 0 thru 3), terminator must be enabled.

If "speed" is selected wrong the drive may be recognized as RX50.

Also the media must be formatted using a DEC formatter.

Oh, and the biggie.. The RQDX MUST have the correct firmware
of the only floppy it it knows is RX50.


Allison

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.
bill

I not have jumper infor but the FD55GFR *IS* the RX33. Or more
clearly put all my RX33s are FD55GFRs though of the three I have
none have the same board. Must be a subrev variation that was
allowed for in the purchase spec.

Everything I have seen lists the RX33 as a Teac FD55G. Whatever the
additions are to make it a GFR seem to cause problems. Like there
are jumpers that need to be set that I don't even have on mine. I
have at least a half-dozen, maybe more and all of them have the same
logic board. Guess I'll just keep trying to come up with a set of
jumpers that works.
bill

All of my RX33s came from inside DEC while I worked there. All are
FD55GFR-xxx.
The correct jumpers allow for Side select, Speed, unitselect is 1
(using 0 thru 3), terminator must be enabled.
If "speed" is selected wrong the drive may be recognized as RX50.
Also the media must be formatted using a DEC formatter.
Oh, and the biggie.. The RQDX MUST have the correct firmware
of the only floppy it it knows is RX50.

Well, that's actually good news. It is recognized as an RX33 by the OS,
it just doesn't work. I assume the fact that it is recognized means I
have the right firmware. All I need to do now is figure out how to set
the jumpers so it actually works.

bill

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.
bill

I not have jumper infor but the FD55GFR *IS* the RX33. Or more
clearly put all my RX33s are FD55GFRs though of the three I have
none have the same board. Must be a subrev variation that was
allowed for in the purchase spec.

Everything I have seen lists the RX33 as a Teac FD55G. Whatever the
additions are to make it a GFR seem to cause problems. Like there
are jumpers that need to be set that I don't even have on mine. I
have at least a half-dozen, maybe more and all of them have the same
logic board. Guess I'll just keep trying to come up with a set of
jumpers that works.
bill

All of my RX33s came from inside DEC while I worked there. All are
FD55GFR-xxx.
The correct jumpers allow for Side select, Speed, unitselect is 1
(using 0 thru 3), terminator must be enabled.
If "speed" is selected wrong the drive may be recognized as RX50.
Also the media must be formatted using a DEC formatter.
Oh, and the biggie.. The RQDX MUST have the correct firmware
of the only floppy it it knows is RX50.

Well, that's actually good news. It is recognized as an RX33 by the OS,
it just doesn't work. I assume the fact that it is recognized means I
have the right firmware. All I need to do now is figure out how to set
the jumpers so it actually works.
bill

No funny twist cable. Pin2 must work as speed select and write
current must track pin 2. That way it can read RX33 or RX50 floppies.
Also drive select is the second drive not the first, I have that
info burried in a box. You can also check with the NETBSD/VAX guys on
this.


Allison

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Well, that's actually good news. It is recognized as an RX33 by the OS,
it just doesn't work. I assume the fact that it is recognized means I
have the right firmware. All I need to do now is figure out how to set
the jumpers so it actually works.
bill

No funny twist cable.

Yeah, knew that. I hate IBMisms.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Pin2 must work as speed select and write
current must track pin 2.

Have to look for what jumpers do this.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
That way it can read RX33 or RX50 floppies.
Also drive select is the second drive not the first,

If you put in two drives (like the two original RX50's) don't they get
jumpered as 0 and 1 (or 1 and 2, depending on numbering scheem)?

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
I have that
info burried in a box. You can also check with the NETBSD/VAX guys on
this.

I have looked there among other places but none of the available examples
have the same jumpers as my drives. :-(

bill

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Well, that's actually good news. It is recognized as an RX33 by the OS,
it just doesn't work. I assume the fact that it is recognized means I
have the right firmware. All I need to do now is figure out how to set
the jumpers so it actually works.
bill

No funny twist cable.

Yeah, knew that. I hate IBMisms.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Pin2 must work as speed select and write
current must track pin 2.

Have to look for what jumpers do this.

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
That way it can read RX33 or RX50 floppies.
Also drive select is the second drive not the first,

If you put in two drives (like the two original RX50's) don't they get
jumpered as 0 and 1 (or 1 and 2, depending on numbering scheem)?

No. The systems that allowed for multiple drives had radial select
(one cable per drive to the decoder/distribution board).

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
I have that
info burried in a box. You can also check with the NETBSD/VAX guys on
this.

I have looked there among other places but none of the available examples
have the same jumpers as my drives. :-(

Old history here, I'd metioned I had more than the then stated number
of variations of drives and was told "cant be". Yes it can. Over
time and with volume I suspect the FD55GFR went through a cost driven
revision or two and as a result there are many different looking
boards in them. The TEAC and TheREF
[http://marina.mfarris.com/theref/floppy_drives/mf__main.html] have
info on most of them.

Allison

[s***@trailing-edge.com]

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
Old history here, I'd metioned I had more than the then stated number
of variations of drives and was told "cant be". Yes it can. Over
time and with volume I suspect the FD55GFR went through a cost driven
revision or two and as a result there are many different looking
boards in them. The TEAC and TheREF
[http://marina.mfarris.com/theref/floppy_drives/mf__main.html] have
info on most of them.

I have to agree with Allison: there are a lot of specialty TEAC 5.25"
drives out there that do not show up in PC-clone stuff very often. Some
(but not all) of the TEAC drive chassis and PCB's can be outfitted with
head load solenoids and door locks too (not relevant for DEC stuff but
is relevant for certain specialty applications.)

There is a rhyme and reason to jumpering etc. but cross-applying
between two different PCB's isn't always as direct as you'd like. Many
of the ones relevant for RX33-clone use are fairly easily testable
(e.g. rig up a little test harness and find drive select jumpers, then
find the jumpers that select 300 vs 360 RPM operation, etc.)

Bill, do not neglect Terry's THIRD-PARTY-DISKS.TXT either for info on
some "other TEAC" and non-TEAC drives. Again it doesn't cover all the
variations but maybe it'll overlap with yours. And don't waste too much
time on a bum floppy drive...

Tim.

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by s***@trailing-edge.com
There is a rhyme and reason to jumpering etc. but cross-applying
between two different PCB's isn't always as direct as you'd like. Many
of the ones relevant for RX33-clone use are fairly easily testable
(e.g. rig up a little test harness and find drive select jumpers, then
find the jumpers that select 300 vs 360 RPM operation, etc.)
Bill, do not neglect Terry's THIRD-PARTY-DISKS.TXT either for info on
some "other TEAC" and non-TEAC drives. Again it doesn't cover all the
variations but maybe it'll overlap with yours. And don't waste too much
time on a bum floppy drive...

Yeah, I have a copy. Unfortunately the jumpers on mine don't even come
close. I suspect mine are newer than most as they all came from PC's of
the 386 vintage. It is probably going to take some more fiddling with
them but I can probably assume (and verify) that some features like the
dual-speed option is neither optional or jumper selectable as these were
intended for one application. Kind of like how some drives came without
drive select jumpers because PC's were always jumpered the same and used
the stupid cable twist to select drives.

Maybe what I need to do is post a list of what the jumper labels on these
drives are or maybe even a picture of the logic board.

bill

[Roger Ivie]

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.
bill

I not have jumper infor but the FD55GFR *IS* the RX33.

The one I have sitting right here is a GFV. For what it's worth, which
is not much.

[s***@trailing-edge.com]

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.

Bill -

My primitive (and probably wrong in at least a few respects)
understanding of TEAC part numbers:

FD = Floppy Drive
55 = Overall series of drive (5.25" in this case)
GFR = Density, TPI, and interface

There is ALSO in the part number:

A two or three or four digit number = defines the PCB and jumpering.
I've seen maybe a dozen different printed circuit boards and at least a
half-dozen different jumper configurations over the years. Seeing as
how they made the FD55GFR for at least a dozen years it shouldn't be
too surprising there are a lot of different manufacturing differences.
12 years is an epoch in the computer industry these days!

Sometimes a letter or two = customizations (this is where head load
solenoid and door lock and even bezel color and LED position and handle
style and terminator installed show up, I do not know all the valid
letters/combos but I believe the TEAC faxback pages have some of them.
Not all PCB's or drive chassis support all options.)

So in short "FD55GFR" isn't enough to tell you what jumpers are there.
Find the additional numbers in the part number, or try to draw out the
arrangement of jumpers on the PCB and maybe we'll recognize it.

Terry's THIRD-PARTY-DISKS.TXT mentions the FD-55GFR-142-U,
FD-55GFR-540-U, and FD-55GFR-149-U, if you happen to be heading by a PC
boneyard to pick over for floppy drives these are "known quantities".

Tim.

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by s***@trailing-edge.com

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.

Bill -
My primitive (and probably wrong in at least a few respects)
FD = Floppy Drive
55 = Overall series of drive (5.25" in this case)
GFR = Density, TPI, and interface
A two or three or four digit number = defines the PCB and jumpering.
I've seen maybe a dozen different printed circuit boards and at least a
half-dozen different jumper configurations over the years. Seeing as
how they made the FD55GFR for at least a dozen years it shouldn't be
too surprising there are a lot of different manufacturing differences.
12 years is an epoch in the computer industry these days!
Sometimes a letter or two = customizations (this is where head load
solenoid and door lock and even bezel color and LED position and handle
style and terminator installed show up, I do not know all the valid
letters/combos but I believe the TEAC faxback pages have some of them.
Not all PCB's or drive chassis support all options.)
So in short "FD55GFR" isn't enough to tell you what jumpers are there.
Find the additional numbers in the part number, or try to draw out the
arrangement of jumpers on the PCB and maybe we'll recognize it.

I will try this approach.

Post by s***@trailing-edge.com
Terry's THIRD-PARTY-DISKS.TXT mentions the FD-55GFR-142-U,
FD-55GFR-540-U, and FD-55GFR-149-U, if you happen to be heading by a PC
boneyard to pick over for floppy drives these are "known quantities".

Actually, I already have a bunch. I have just decided it's time to
replace all my aging (ailing) RX50's.

Funny, really. I still have many functional 8" drives (RX02's and other
non=DEC drives) that have long outlasted the RX50's. They certainly
were not up to DEC's usual quality standard.

bill

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Actually, I already have a bunch. I have just decided it's time to
replace all my aging (ailing) RX50's.
Funny, really. I still have many functional 8" drives (RX02's and other
non=DEC drives) that have long outlasted the RX50's. They certainly
were not up to DEC's usual quality standard.

Yes, even within DEC they were not held in high esteem.

FYI DEC used two flavors of RX33. Those put in Vaxmate a 286 based PC
sorta and those used in some flavors of DMII, MicroPDP, MicroVAX.
from memory they are the same but jumpers may have differed from the
PC use and rest of the pack. The most common use was the Vaxmate
in volume.

Allison

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

Post by s***@trailing-edge.com

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Has anyone succesfully used a Teac FD55GFR as an RX33? Can you tell
me how to set the jumpers? I know about the MicroNote that addresses
Teac FD55's, but the jumpers don't match the 55GFR and I haven't had
any luck so far.

Bill -
My primitive (and probably wrong in at least a few respects)
FD = Floppy Drive
55 = Overall series of drive (5.25" in this case)
GFR = Density, TPI, and interface

FD is indeed floppy disk.

55 is general form factor both 5.25 and half height.

55A is single sided 48tpi (40 tr)
55B is two sided 48tpi (40 tr)
C ??? any guesses?
(note I hear it was really the same as the B but the latch was
on the other side)
D ??? (heard it was a button latch)
55E is single sided 96tpi (80 tr)
55F is two sided 96tpi (80tr) single speed (720k)
55G is two sided, dual speed 96tpi 80tr.

I have FD55 in A/B/E/F/G varients so I'm sure of those.

Post by s***@trailing-edge.com
A two or three or four digit number = defines the PCB and jumpering.
I've seen maybe a dozen different printed circuit boards and at least a
half-dozen different jumper configurations over the years. Seeing as
how they made the FD55GFR for at least a dozen years it shouldn't be
too surprising there are a lot of different manufacturing differences.
12 years is an epoch in the computer industry these days!

You can bet on that.

Allison

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Allison-***@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote:

(snip regarding TEAC drives)

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
55A is single sided 48tpi (40 tr)
55B is two sided 48tpi (40 tr)
C ??? any guesses?
(note I hear it was really the same as the B but the latch was
on the other side)
D ??? (heard it was a button latch)
55E is single sided 96tpi (80 tr)
55F is two sided 96tpi (80tr) single speed (720k)
55G is two sided, dual speed 96tpi 80tr.

The sheet I have from many years ago only has A, B, E, F, and G.

If there ever was a C or D it disappeared early.

-- glen

[A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 02:17:06 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
(snip regarding TEAC drives)

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
55A is single sided 48tpi (40 tr)
55B is two sided 48tpi (40 tr)
C ??? any guesses?
(note I hear it was really the same as the B but the latch was
on the other side)
D ??? (heard it was a button latch)
55E is single sided 96tpi (80 tr)
55F is two sided 96tpi (80tr) single speed (720k)
55G is two sided, dual speed 96tpi 80tr.

The sheet I have from many years ago only has A, B, E, F, and G.
If there ever was a C or D it disappeared early.
-- glen

I have the drives, much better arbitor than a datasheet.

Someone suggested the C and D varients were special or full height.

Allison

[frank]

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 02:17:06 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt

Post by glen herrmannsfeldt
(snip regarding TEAC drives)

Post by A***@nouce.bellatlantic.net
55A is single sided 48tpi (40 tr)
55B is two sided 48tpi (40 tr)
55C
55D
55E is single sided 96tpi (80 tr)
55F is two sided 96tpi (80tr) single speed (720k)
55G is two sided, dual speed 96tpi 80tr.

The sheet I have from many years ago only has A, B, E, F, and G.
If there ever was a C or D it disappeared early.
-- glen

I have the drives, much better arbitor than a datasheet.
Someone suggested the C and D varients were special or full height.

No, full height is the FD50 series. FD55 are all half-height.

Frank

[Bill Gunshannon]

Well, I actually found a couple of FD55GFR's with jumpers that matched
all the descriptions. Guess what? Still don't work.

When I boot RSTS and run HARDWARE LIST it shows an RX33 present.

RU0: 172150 P370 RQDX3 Units: 0(RD32) 1(RX33)

When I bring RSTS all the way up and do a SHOW DEV DU I get:

Device _DU0: Control RU0: CSR 772150 Status: Mounted
Device _DU1: Control RU0: CSR 772150

But when I try to access the RX33 I get:

$ init du1:
Pack-id: floppy
?Device hung or write locked


And, it gets scarier.

If I try to boot from DU2: (which should be the first floppy) I get
no disk activity light and a "No drive" message from the Monitor.
If I disconnect the hard disk and type boot DU0: I get a disk activity
light on the floppy, follwed by a "No drive" message from the Monitor.

Is this strange, or what??

I'll take any suggestions. I actually have time to play with it
this weekend!!

bill

[John Santos]

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Well, I actually found a couple of FD55GFR's with jumpers that matched
all the descriptions. Guess what? Still don't work.
When I boot RSTS and run HARDWARE LIST it shows an RX33 present.
RU0: 172150 P370 RQDX3 Units: 0(RD32) 1(RX33)
Device _DU0: Control RU0: CSR 772150 Status: Mounted
Device _DU1: Control RU0: CSR 772150
Pack-id: floppy
?Device hung or write locked
And, it gets scarier.
If I try to boot from DU2: (which should be the first floppy) I get
no disk activity light and a "No drive" message from the Monitor.
If I disconnect the hard disk and type boot DU0: I get a disk activity
light on the floppy, follwed by a "No drive" message from the Monitor.

What happens if you leave the hard drive connected and try to boot from
DU1:?

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Is this strange, or what??
I'll take any suggestions. I actually have time to play with it
this weekend!!
bill

Shouldn't the floppy show up as DU2:, not DU1:? I think this might
be jumper settings on the RQDX, or how it's cabled to the drives,
and not anything on the drive itself.

Or the drive might just be broken. "Device hung or write locked"
is the typical way RSTS/E would report a drive that wasn't spinning
or had failed self-test, etc. (It would also report attempts to
write to a write-locked floppy that way; if the little tab isn't
in the right place, or the sensor/switch is broken, it should still
be possible to mount it /read-only.)

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by John Santos

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Well, I actually found a couple of FD55GFR's with jumpers that matched
all the descriptions. Guess what? Still don't work.
When I boot RSTS and run HARDWARE LIST it shows an RX33 present.
RU0: 172150 P370 RQDX3 Units: 0(RD32) 1(RX33)
Device _DU0: Control RU0: CSR 772150 Status: Mounted
Device _DU1: Control RU0: CSR 772150
Pack-id: floppy
?Device hung or write locked
And, it gets scarier.
If I try to boot from DU2: (which should be the first floppy) I get
no disk activity light and a "No drive" message from the Monitor.
If I disconnect the hard disk and type boot DU0: I get a disk activity
light on the floppy, follwed by a "No drive" message from the Monitor.

What happens if you leave the hard drive connected and try to boot from
DU1:?

"No disk" from the Monitor. Which is as it should be because DU1:
would be a second RDxx disk on the RQDX3 (actually, on the RQDXE).
Once I get this part straightened out I intend to add an external
hard drive as well, but we move in small steps.

Post by John Santos

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Is this strange, or what??
I'll take any suggestions. I actually have time to play with it
this weekend!!
bill

Shouldn't the floppy show up as DU2:, not DU1:?

No, I am pretty sure RSTS just numbers them in order. If I put the
other hard drive on it will become DU1: and push the floppy back to DU2:.

Post by John Santos
I think this might
be jumper settings on the RQDX,

Other than things like CSR I am unaware of any jumpers on the RQDX
controllers.

Post by John Santos
or how it's cabled to the drives,
and not anything on the drive itself.

Cabling is not optional. There are connectors for two hard drives
and one floppy (2 drives if you use a real RX50).

Post by John Santos
Or the drive might just be broken.

Drive works in a PC.

Post by John Santos
"Device hung or write locked"
is the typical way RSTS/E would report a drive that wasn't spinning
or had failed self-test, etc.

I assuke the fact that HARDWARE LIST identifies it as an RX33 means
it must have passed some kind of selftest. Otherwise, how would it
know the type? (It could be an RX50 as well!)

Post by John Santos
(It would also report attempts to
write to a write-locked floppy that way; if the little tab isn't
in the right place, or the sensor/switch is broken, it should still
be possible to mount it /read-only.)

Well, can't mount it if I can't INIT it so that test is out. :-)

bill

[John Santos]

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by John Santos

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Well, I actually found a couple of FD55GFR's with jumpers that matched
all the descriptions. Guess what? Still don't work.
When I boot RSTS and run HARDWARE LIST it shows an RX33 present.
RU0: 172150 P370 RQDX3 Units: 0(RD32) 1(RX33)
Device _DU0: Control RU0: CSR 772150 Status: Mounted
Device _DU1: Control RU0: CSR 772150
Pack-id: floppy
?Device hung or write locked
And, it gets scarier.
If I try to boot from DU2: (which should be the first floppy) I get
no disk activity light and a "No drive" message from the Monitor.
If I disconnect the hard disk and type boot DU0: I get a disk activity
light on the floppy, follwed by a "No drive" message from the Monitor.

What happens if you leave the hard drive connected and try to boot from
DU1:?

would be a second RDxx disk on the RQDX3 (actually, on the RQDXE).
Once I get this part straightened out I intend to add an external
hard drive as well, but we move in small steps.

Post by John Santos

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Is this strange, or what??
I'll take any suggestions. I actually have time to play with it
this weekend!!
bill

Shouldn't the floppy show up as DU2:, not DU1:?

No, I am pretty sure RSTS just numbers them in order. If I put the
other hard drive on it will become DU1: and push the floppy back to DU2:.

Really? It honors the hardware unit numbers on UDA50 and KDA50 drives,
so I thought it would on RQDX's as well. (It's the same driver, talking
MSCP to all of them.)

Does anyone know for sure whether you should see DU0: and DU1:, or DU0:
and DU2: in this configuration?

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by John Santos
I think this might
be jumper settings on the RQDX,

Other than things like CSR I am unaware of any jumpers on the RQDX
controllers.

Post by John Santos
or how it's cabled to the drives,
and not anything on the drive itself.

Cabling is not optional. There are connectors for two hard drives
and one floppy (2 drives if you use a real RX50).

Sounds like the right cabling that I remember.

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by John Santos
Or the drive might just be broken.

Drive works in a PC.

Post by John Santos
"Device hung or write locked"
is the typical way RSTS/E would report a drive that wasn't spinning
or had failed self-test, etc.

I assuke the fact that HARDWARE LIST identifies it as an RX33 means
it must have passed some kind of selftest. Otherwise, how would it
know the type? (It could be an RX50 as well!)

Not necessarily. If the drive logic is partially working, it might be
able to identify itself without actually being able to read/write any
date. (I.e. if the motor was burned out, or if it was overheating
shortly after powerup due to insufficient cooling.)

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Post by John Santos
(It would also report attempts to
write to a write-locked floppy that way; if the little tab isn't
in the right place, or the sensor/switch is broken, it should still
be possible to mount it /read-only.)

Well, can't mount it if I can't INIT it so that test is out. :-)

If you can't write it, you can't init it, but you should be able to
read (NFS) a random floppy from a PC, etc. DSKDMP, ODT, or just
(in BASIC+)
open "DU1:" for input as file 1
get #1, record 1
field #1, 512% as A$
print ascii(mid(a$, I%, 1%)); for I% =1% to 512%

should dump out the 1st block of the floppy.

I don't think you have to mount/foreign/nowrite du1: first.
(Don't remember if RSTS/E lets or requires you mount/foreign,
or if you can just open an unmounted disk and go.) You certainly
need privileges, but I don't remember which ones.

Post by Bill Gunshannon
bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by John Santos
If you can't write it, you can't init it, but you should be able to
read (NFS) a random floppy from a PC, etc. DSKDMP, ODT, or just
(in BASIC+)
open "DU1:" for input as file 1
get #1, record 1
field #1, 512% as A$
print ascii(mid(a$, I%, 1%)); for I% =1% to 512%
should dump out the 1st block of the floppy.

"Device hung or write locked"

Post by John Santos
I don't think you have to mount/foreign/nowrite du1: first.
(Don't remember if RSTS/E lets or requires you mount/foreign,
or if you can just open an unmounted disk and go.) You certainly
need privileges, but I don't remember which ones.

MOUNT /NOWRITE /OVER=ID DU1: results in

"Device hung or write locked"

Something is definitely wrong and it seems to be at a very low
level.

bill

[Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart]

At the risk of teaching Grandma How To Suck Eggs.. :-)

The first and second hard disk drives must be
jumpered as the THIRD and FOURTH addresses.
NB: if the addresses start at 0, this means 2 and 3.

The RX50 did not have user configurable jumpers
so they were always the FIRST and SECOND addresses.

1.2MB floppies came out of the PC world so they were
always jumpered as the SECOND address (I think) and
the twist in the cable made the next drive to be
selected as the THIRD address.

RX33s were jumpered to be either the FIRST address
or the SECOND address for use with the RQDX3.

The TEAC FD55GFR drive had a speed select line so
it could spin at 360 RPM for 1.2MB RX33s and at
300 RPM for 800KB RX50s.

To add confusion, the RQDXn controllers internally
assigned Unit Numbers to Hard Disks first then Floppies.
See P.1050 of Vol III LSI-11 Systems Service Manual.

Thus an RQDXn with the LUN jumper not installed
(LUNS 0 to 3) and an RX50 drive appears as DU0: and DU1:
under RT-11.

But the same RQDXn / HD configuration with an HD jumpered
to the THIRD address now has DU0: as the Hard Disk,
DU1: and DU2: as the floppies.

I've never tried it but I assume an RQDX3 with a single
RX33 at the FIRST Address and an HD at the THIRD address
would appear as DU1: and DU0: respectively.

Andy Stewart.

NB. To email reply, substitute 'darkstar' and 'carringbush'.

[Bill Gunshannon]

Success!!

I found a comment on the web that said the labeled position of the "I"
jumper on FD55GFR's was misleading (It's in a cluster of other jumpers)
and after reading this and comparing the description to my boards I
determined mine was probably one of these. I now have the "I" jumper
moved (it actually looks like it is on a pair of pins labeled "HL")
and the drives work under both RT11 and RSTS. Thanks to everyone for
the pointers.

bill

[Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart]

Greetings Bill,

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Success!!

Rarely happens so it is Oh So Sweet when it does. :-)

Post by Bill Gunshannon
I found a comment on the web that said the labeled position of the "I"
jumper on FD55GFR's was misleading (It's in a cluster of other jumpers)
and after reading this and comparing the description to my boards I
determined mine was probably one of these. I now have the "I" jumper
moved (it actually looks like it is on a pair of pins labeled "HL")
and the drives work under both RT11 and RSTS. Thanks to everyone for
the pointers.

I've got a pile of TEAC FD55GFRs in storage and the models don't match
the one or two types of RX33s that I have.
Please could you send me the URL so I'm prepared next time
I get back to trying 1.2MB drives.
--
Regards, Andy.

03-9808-9584 AH, 0407-300-818 Reasonable Hours.
If this is an news group posting and you want to email me
then substitute "darkstar" and "carringbush" appropriately.

"We fight Legends with Logic, Folklore with Facts."

George Spencer of SMOG (Scientific Measurement Of Ghosts),
a character in The Avengers.

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart
Greetings Bill,

Post by Bill Gunshannon
Success!!

Rarely happens so it is Oh So Sweet when it does. :-)

Post by Bill Gunshannon
I found a comment on the web that said the labeled position of the "I"
jumper on FD55GFR's was misleading (It's in a cluster of other jumpers)
and after reading this and comparing the description to my boards I
determined mine was probably one of these. I now have the "I" jumper
moved (it actually looks like it is on a pair of pins labeled "HL")
and the drives work under both RT11 and RSTS. Thanks to everyone for
the pointers.

I've got a pile of TEAC FD55GFRs in storage and the models don't match
the one or two types of RX33s that I have.
Please could you send me the URL so I'm prepared next time
I get back to trying 1.2MB drives.

Sorry, I didn't write down the URL's. I figured I would remember the
information and if I really needed to find it again I probably could
do it with google.

What I may do at some point is take pictures of the ones I have and
out them up on my webpage so people can see where the jumpers go.

bill